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dieselgate 1 days ago [-]
Read it a few times to understand the core message because the thesis and title are slightly self-evident i.e. more isolation causes less socializing. But the crux seems to be:
> "We see individual elephants leaving and possibly dying at accelerating rates, but new individuals are not coming into the population,” said Madsen. “With fewer individuals in the population, those who are left will naturally have fewer relationships. However, the remaining elephants are also changing their relationships with each other."
In my opinion "dying at accelerating rates" is the/a key takeaway. Notably climate change doesn't seem to be explicitly mentioned and hate to see poaching be a direct cause:
> Many elephant populations are already impacted through deaths resulting from poaching and conflicts with humans. Other contributing factors may be disruptions in habitat connectivity and less food available...
Other comments mention other intelligent and social species and this reminds me of Puget Sound Southern resident killer whales [0] and their decrease in food availability and offspring viability.
There's a few reasons driving all of these things, and yes, climate change is largely not a top issue as it moves far too slow as compared to other reasons.
First, is that places where elephants live are facing increasing pressure from the outside due to human settlement. National parks established decades ago or longer have borders which face ever-increasing human populations right on them. Human-wildlife conflict and elephants raiding crops farmed right next to parks are incredibly commonplace.
Second, that national parks established decades ago in most places were not designed for wildlife corridors to connect the parks. The concept of a way for elephants to walk 100km or 200km to another park is a relatively new notion. So, already, roads, cities, railroads, etc. prevent long-range migration, if for no other reason than the landscape and water sources needed for those migrations are also great spots for people to get water and establish a town.
Third, that poaching has forced elephants to change their own patterns to consolidate. They are increasingly isolated because they now feel they need to form super-herds of 50-100 individuals just to survive in places lacking proper wildlife law enforcement. So the elephants themselves see more danger in leaving the herd than staying put, which obviously creates a genetic diversity issue, among other problems.
These are all very recent issues, maybe the last 50 years in some ways, but changes in behavior like super herds are maybe the last 10-15 years in certain areas.
Dying at accelerated rates could have a number of factors, including poaching, obviously, but also stress from being in areas where poaching happens frequently drives behavior changes that might not lead to long life spans. There could also (just a guess) that after CITES was established in the 1970s to limit the ivory trade, there might have been a relative population boom. Elephants have long life expectancy, and so you have the competing incentives of older elephants with longer tusks being poached more, competing for food more, and older elephants are cantankerous. If they get into a village to eat crops, they might be shot to prevent human death, or (as I've seen happen) might each a whole field of something recently sprayed with pesticide, which can and does kill elephants.
formerly_proven 18 hours ago [-]
Human activity in sub-saharan Africa has increased >5x in the last fifty years or so, >10x since WW2.
paganel 18 hours ago [-]
To put it more succinctly, the successful vaccination policies applied in Africa back in the 1980s started it all, there are now a lot more humans living in Africa which means a lot less wildlife habitat.
rickdeckard 23 hours ago [-]
> "Notably climate change doesn't seem to be explicitly mentioned"
If it'd be my study, I'd also avoid mentioning climate-change explicitly.
With the (US-governments') move from mere verbal denial of climate change to institutional and policy-level skepticism of everything and everyone just using the term, it could cause the whole paper to be dismissed in discussions of some circles...
mikestew 11 hours ago [-]
As if "some circles" were going to do anything about declining elephant populations to begin with. "Obeying in advance" isn't going to save you, your paper, or the elephants.
(With the assumption that climate change is one of the causes.)
chanux 15 hours ago [-]
Human elephant conflict is not something we have solved here in Sri Lanka yet and I think that too contributes to the accelerating rates of deaths (Humans die too, in this conflict).
PS: The article addresses this
> Many elephant populations are already impacted through deaths resulting from poaching and conflicts with humans. Other contributing factors may be disruptions in habitat connectivity and less food available for the elephants as ecological conditions change across the 119-square-mile park and surroundings.
enough2000 8 hours ago [-]
It's curious that no one has mentioned meat, egg and dairy consumption as the main drivers for loss of habitat and biodiversity yet.
50% of habitable land is used for agriculture and we need all that land for feeding the our livestock, which is outnumbering mammal wildlife by far.
94% of non-human mammal biomass is livestock.
Wanna help the elephants? Eat no meat, no dairy, no eggs, no fish. It's easy as that.
My daughter is on a safari right now in Kenya. At one camp, an elephant came right up to the tents (she sent us a picture). This is apparently very common there. I wonder if the elephants are looking for social interaction, or maybe they know these tourist camps are safe from poachers.
niklasd 19 hours ago [-]
I've been in that situation too. We found it quite scary, since Elephants can be dangerous! But we were also in awe, such a powerful and big creature.
(I think it just wanted to eat from the tree next to the tent)
bdauvergne 17 hours ago [-]
How many big mammal remain in Europe and North america outside of livestock ? Africa is going the same way.
nan60 1 days ago [-]
Thought this was a joke about Mastodon at first ;D
moffkalast 19 hours ago [-]
The aptly named Mastodon, driven to extinction by Bluesky.
zkmon 24 hours ago [-]
That's really a useful finding that helps to connect the dots in the rapidly changing overall ecosystem of biosphere on Earth. I thought this pattern of diminishing social groups is specific to humans. But as usual, the phenomenon appears broader and more generic.
Education, jobs, desire for better living conditions did the damage for humans. Families became workers of the economies and were flung far apart.
For elephants, their distress is probably a direct result of their need for social grouping. A wild cat wouldn't have been affected by the lack of social groups.
slopinthebag 1 days ago [-]
imagine we find out later that shifts in our socialisation isn't due to smartphones but some unknown factor that also affects intelligent animals...
conductr 23 hours ago [-]
I think we just come to grips with humans being an awful, parasitic, and destructive species, even towards ourselves
keybored 19 hours ago [-]
Humans are awful. Anyway, why won’t these humans hang out with each other? Awful, awful asocial beasts.
hobo123 20 hours ago [-]
Yes, EMF, environmental pollutants, more toxic metals going around (that used to be buried).
Not saying these are all likely, but especially the latter ones might play a small role.
E.g. polar bears and other predators have way higher retinol accumulations in their liver these days than 50 years ago, so apparently something is changing their metabolism.
blobbers 1 days ago [-]
Or imagine we find out later that shifts in our radio waves are also affecting intelligent animals!
(like bees?)
OroPla 17 hours ago [-]
If I had to theorize, I'd put RF radiation (5G/4G/../WiFi) up there as the prime suspect. With water contaminated by hormones as a close second. Microplastics come in third place.
mso3i 1 days ago [-]
Well there are more microbes around us than there are stars in the universe. They survive without smart phones, intelligence, religion, society and stories that need to fit in a 3 inch chimp brain about the meaning of it all. One of them recently killed 6 million people. Life goes on.
Obscurity4340 12 hours ago [-]
> killed 6 million
Which one was that?
tredre3 9 hours ago [-]
Covid-19, 7 million is the current official figure (excluding indirect deaths).
AnneTrotter 1 days ago [-]
What a comforting thought, that killing off an intelligent species isn't really our fault.
Bit of an escapist fantasy, though.
stouset 1 days ago [-]
The elephants are spending too much time confiding in Claude?
lelandfe 1 days ago [-]
Even bigger tusks, Claude
1 days ago [-]
yieldcrv 1 days ago [-]
hmmm check the mycelium
1 days ago [-]
combobyte 20 hours ago [-]
Capitalism.
K0balt 1 days ago [-]
YC 26. Facebook, but for elephants. (Maybe pivot to doordash for lions?)
combobyte 20 hours ago [-]
They're already depressed... why would you want to hurt them more?
chanux 15 hours ago [-]
To sell ads.
cyberax 1 days ago [-]
> Facebook, but for elephants.
Tuskbook?
> Maybe pivot to doordash for lions?
Rate your delivery driver on the score from "Too thin, won't eat again" to "Nice and juicy".
Avicebron 1 days ago [-]
It's like when you starve them of resources they don't thrive. It does not compute, the line is going up.
anArbitraryOne 1 days ago [-]
It must be due to their social media, AI, and porn usage
Ylpertnodi 13 hours ago [-]
...volentieri video games
21 hours ago [-]
mentalgear 20 hours ago [-]
Is this about Elephants now having social media too and also getting Zuckerberg`ed ?
DeluluDon 8 hours ago [-]
One thing is not like the other.
xmcp123 1 days ago [-]
Glad to see things like this are being funded. It’s easy to forget we aren’t the only smart, social creatures on the planet dealing with this rapidly changing world.
Hat tip to the elephants for not being sociopaths like the Orca. Or otters.
Maybe the elephants and octopus should form a brilliant animals but not sociopaths club.
AnneTrotter 1 days ago [-]
Elephants are a reminder of what we should choose to be. Orcas are what we deserve for what we have already chosen.
somenameforme 16 hours ago [-]
Might want to look up what teen/young adult African elephants are like, particularly absent a strong father and during musth. [1] Pretty much all noble savage myths, human or animal alike, end up indeed being myths. Life's hard, and evolution doesn't care about anything except reproductive success.
> "We see individual elephants leaving and possibly dying at accelerating rates, but new individuals are not coming into the population,” said Madsen. “With fewer individuals in the population, those who are left will naturally have fewer relationships. However, the remaining elephants are also changing their relationships with each other."
In my opinion "dying at accelerating rates" is the/a key takeaway. Notably climate change doesn't seem to be explicitly mentioned and hate to see poaching be a direct cause:
> Many elephant populations are already impacted through deaths resulting from poaching and conflicts with humans. Other contributing factors may be disruptions in habitat connectivity and less food available...
Other comments mention other intelligent and social species and this reminds me of Puget Sound Southern resident killer whales [0] and their decrease in food availability and offspring viability.
[0]: https://www.nature.org/en-us/about-us/where-we-work/united-s...
First, is that places where elephants live are facing increasing pressure from the outside due to human settlement. National parks established decades ago or longer have borders which face ever-increasing human populations right on them. Human-wildlife conflict and elephants raiding crops farmed right next to parks are incredibly commonplace.
Second, that national parks established decades ago in most places were not designed for wildlife corridors to connect the parks. The concept of a way for elephants to walk 100km or 200km to another park is a relatively new notion. So, already, roads, cities, railroads, etc. prevent long-range migration, if for no other reason than the landscape and water sources needed for those migrations are also great spots for people to get water and establish a town.
Third, that poaching has forced elephants to change their own patterns to consolidate. They are increasingly isolated because they now feel they need to form super-herds of 50-100 individuals just to survive in places lacking proper wildlife law enforcement. So the elephants themselves see more danger in leaving the herd than staying put, which obviously creates a genetic diversity issue, among other problems.
These are all very recent issues, maybe the last 50 years in some ways, but changes in behavior like super herds are maybe the last 10-15 years in certain areas.
Dying at accelerated rates could have a number of factors, including poaching, obviously, but also stress from being in areas where poaching happens frequently drives behavior changes that might not lead to long life spans. There could also (just a guess) that after CITES was established in the 1970s to limit the ivory trade, there might have been a relative population boom. Elephants have long life expectancy, and so you have the competing incentives of older elephants with longer tusks being poached more, competing for food more, and older elephants are cantankerous. If they get into a village to eat crops, they might be shot to prevent human death, or (as I've seen happen) might each a whole field of something recently sprayed with pesticide, which can and does kill elephants.
If it'd be my study, I'd also avoid mentioning climate-change explicitly.
With the (US-governments') move from mere verbal denial of climate change to institutional and policy-level skepticism of everything and everyone just using the term, it could cause the whole paper to be dismissed in discussions of some circles...
(With the assumption that climate change is one of the causes.)
PS: The article addresses this
> Many elephant populations are already impacted through deaths resulting from poaching and conflicts with humans. Other contributing factors may be disruptions in habitat connectivity and less food available for the elephants as ecological conditions change across the 119-square-mile park and surroundings.
94% of non-human mammal biomass is livestock.
Wanna help the elephants? Eat no meat, no dairy, no eggs, no fish. It's easy as that.
https://ourworldindata.org/environmental-impacts-of-food
(I think it just wanted to eat from the tree next to the tent)
Education, jobs, desire for better living conditions did the damage for humans. Families became workers of the economies and were flung far apart.
For elephants, their distress is probably a direct result of their need for social grouping. A wild cat wouldn't have been affected by the lack of social groups.
Not saying these are all likely, but especially the latter ones might play a small role.
E.g. polar bears and other predators have way higher retinol accumulations in their liver these days than 50 years ago, so apparently something is changing their metabolism.
(like bees?)
Which one was that?
Bit of an escapist fantasy, though.
Tuskbook?
> Maybe pivot to doordash for lions?
Rate your delivery driver on the score from "Too thin, won't eat again" to "Nice and juicy".
Hat tip to the elephants for not being sociopaths like the Orca. Or otters.
Maybe the elephants and octopus should form a brilliant animals but not sociopaths club.
[1] - https://www.bbcearth.com/news/teenage-elephants-need-a-fathe...